Alexander Chernov: 13 thousand jobs have been created by Skolkovo participants

- During this saga with the reform of the Russian Academy of Sciences, the peak of which was about two weeks ago, I spoke to a large group of representatives of the Academy. They seem to all have been overwhelmingly opposed to it, though at the same time they quarreled with each other in my studio. But they were almost unanimous in the view that Skolkovo was a completely pointless project, one that just takes money from the budget that would have been better directed to the Academy. Let's start with this.

- You know, I was once very glad I did not write a doctoral thesis. And now I am glad that I did not become an academician. However, I was not offered this. I did not earn it. But there are things ...

- What was the dissertation topic that you would have defended?

- You know, I spent a long time on the nomination of Russia for different major international sports competitions. In general, all these applications are part of my daily life. I'm now working on a nomination for Yekaterinburg to host Expo 2020. Of course, this is a very interesting topic for a thesis, but I did not even start to write it, because I thought that someone would call it into question ...

- It seems the Lord has saved you, in fact. Now there would be a scandal.

- And an academician I'll never be.

- All right, all right, then God be with the Academy. Moreover, there really is lots and lots to go over before these reforms are finished. The issue is really serious. The Skolkovo Foundation is three years old. Is there something real about which you can proudly say, "Yes, we did it, we have accomplished something?"

- Of course there is. If we had spent three years and done nothing, we would have already run away ourselves. We have created a university. Can you imagine? The building is not yet built, but there are already students, curriculum, faculty. There is already a second graduating class. Already new entrants.

- This is work for the future.

- No.

- Of course, they will graduate sometime, they will do something... And I mean something that I could touch with my hands.

- Attempt number two. We have 961 companies that are residents of Skolkovo. These are start-up companies that have come with their projects, that have gone through a tough process of expert evaluation and have become participants in the creation of the innovation center. They came at different stages, some of them have come with already developed innovations and work on them as part of our innovation city. Some came with ideas to get support, both professional and financial. And some of them, imagine, have already made their exit from the innovation city. Since we only work at the stage of development, we have the right to support these projects only at this stage, and when they go into production, they cease to be our residents. And these companies have. So, about 20% of these companies already have products on the market.

- How do you select them? What do you consider important when the people come to the Foundation and say, "We have an application, help us"? What are the main criteria?

- We tell them, "Get out of the here, there is nothing to do here, go to our website." And on the site there is completely transparent procedure that none of the Foundation employees has anything to do with, we cannot help them overcome these barriers.

- What is that process? Is this a test of some kind?

- This is not a test.

- Do I understand correctly, that they have to find an area in which they want to work themselves?

- Yes, there are five clusters: energy, IT, biomedicine, and the space and nuclear sectors. If their idea fits within or on the border between two clusters, then they fill out the application, present a very clear set of documents, including about their company, then this application goes to a secret evaluation by experts. The panel includes more than a thousand people. The application is sent selectively by computer to experts in the relevant competency.

- This is sort of a vote by ratings?

- Yes, if ten experts vote for the project, they automatically acquire the status of resident. This eliminates the possibility of defrauding these innovators by allowing kickbacks for registration.

- You are getting ahead of yourself.

- Yes, I prepared for this.

- I understand that you've prepared yourself, I am also prepared.

- Moreover, that is the 725^th time I’ve answered that question.

- Yes, I imagine, you should understand me, too, there is a certain number of these questions, so first I would still like to talk a little bit about something else. So, I understand, what else?

- A thousand companies, this is a lot. A thousand companies, this is a huge number.

- Did you set a goal for yourself three years ago, that after three years there should be this number? What was the goal?

- The goal was that by the middle of 2014 we would have a thousand companies, and we will reach this figure, in fact, by the middle of 2013. We are far from being ahead of schedule on all indicators. Moreover, in many ways we are behind schedule. But on this indicator we managed to meet our goal much faster. And there was a time at the beginning of the Foundation when we wondered if people would actually come to us.

- Why did you think they wouldn’t come?

- We simply didn’t know. We were building Skolkovo for the first time, and there was no precedent. We didn’t know if it looked tempting enough, the proposals that we were making - on tax exemptions, on fast track registration for patent protection, on attracting investors. We didn’t know how the start-up community would react to this.

- And when did you realize that it did?

- By the end of 2012.

- Why? Was there some kind of percentage indicator?

- There was a steady number of applications in the pipeline, and not every application was approved. So, the number was reassuring for us. We realized that there were thousands of start-ups and that we would be ahead of schedule. And you know, we even worked to improve the quality of start-ups, slightly tightened the principles of selection, slightly expanded the panel of experts, made the parameters for documents to be submitted a little bit more strict, thus allowing ourselves the luxury of selecting higher-quality start-ups.

- Let's now talk about the events surrounding the Foundation, about the board of trustees. Who is going to be on it? All, of course, are interested above all about whether or not Vladislav Surkov will be there.

- He’s there.

- And will he stay?

- This is the prerogative of the investment board. And at the next meeting, whenever it will be, this issue might be addressed, and maybe not. So this question is not for me. The investment board talks to the prime minister. And the candidacy of Surkov is possible.

- And accordingly, you do not know whether any adjustments at all in the project itself will be made? For this too you would refer me to Dmitry Medvedev?

- I do not want to send you Dmitry Medvedev. By the way, Dmitry Medvedev is a frequent guest at Skolkovo. He has repeatedly visited us, conducted activities and visited exhibitions. Let's talk a little more about Surkov.

- Ok.

- In general, Surkov is a very hard man. I had to deal with him a lot at that stage, when he was in charge of the project. A more meticulous, detail-oriented person I have not seen for a long time. He would dig for the problem and keep going as long as he hasn’t reached the bottom. He left. But the project is so colossal and so complex that his departure may affect the intensity of the work of those with whom he interacted directly. But I am not certain that he will have some influence on the speed with which the university is established.

- What are the functions of the board of trustees? Why does the Skolkovo Foundation need this?

- It defines the strategy of the Foundation. It determines, in fact, the parameters of the budget distribution. This is our main governing body.

- Is it true that there will be a change in the funding structure? Because Viktor Vekselberg talked about it, in fact, he said that state-owned companies will not necessarily allocate money. And, I think in the paper Izvestiya there was an article not too long ago that said 20-30% of budget expenditures on Skolkovo will be cut.

- State-owned companies didn’t allocate money to the Skolkovo Foundation. State-owned companies were offered the chance to give a portion of their innovation budgets to the endowment of Skoltech, the university. Some of the companies have done this, there is now about 120 million.

- Wait a second, I must have confused something. I quote Mr. Vekselberg, who said, according to ITAR-TASS, that state-owned companies will no longer be required to allocate funds to the Foundation: "Yes, they have sent money, now the endowment fund of the university has on the order of $130-140 million, including funds that have been contributed by state-owned companies"...

- Absolutely everything you said is correct. The endowment fund means the endowment of Skoltech. State-owned companies didn’t contribute to the Skolkovo Foundation, but to the university. To make it exist, they had this technology. After that, now, if I'm not mistaken, this decision is being reviewed, I'm not sure that it has completely finished this review. You know, the endowment fund itself is essentially voluntary. It’s inherently voluntary. It exists, operates and develops only when companies and individuals voluntarily contribute funds.

- Is there any kind of government support? Do you need it?

- Each year we get more than impressive funds from the state.

- 15-20 billion rubles?

- Yes, that's a lot.

- And without it you couldn’t continue?

- Not yet, but we already have a very large amount of funds, private investments. This is to make it clear. There are key components of ecosystems: the need to build a university - this is allocated by the state, building the technology park - this is allocated by the state, creating infrastructure, heat, water, electricity, power stations ...

- But each of these tasks has an end?

- Certainly.

- As I understand you can’t do without it, because not all of the planned tasks have been completed yet?

- A very large amount of money is either already attracted or already under an obligation. This includes private companies, including foreign corporations that are interested in the development of infrastructure - 27 large companies, including the leading brands of the world. They are building R & D centers or will rent spaces that are as of yet not built to establish R & D centers.

- Sergei Ivanov said, I’ll find the figure and I want you confirm it, that the venture capital funds are willing to invest in about 20 billion rubles in Foundation projects.

- How do you imagine that I would contradict Sergei Ivanov? I absolutely agree with him.

- I don’t know, maybe you would say more.

- This time I agree with him.

- So, you do occasionally have some rare points of disagreement?

- Yes, yes, yes, I agree.

- What about, I wonder?

- In basketball and soccer. He is a CSKA fan and I like Dynamo.

- This is a serious problem, sometimes these sports disputes can grow on their own. And our listeners are responding, here Maria Komarova wrote in Facebook that she is still not happy with your answer, she is not fully satisfied. What kind of practical application has come from these thousand companies, in which industries do they work and what have they already done? Probably not a thousand yet, some number of them are still not quite working right? Of these, how many of these thousands companies have already gone out into the world?

- First, 13,000 jobs have been created.

- In which sectors?

- In biomedicine, in IT, in energy-efficient technologies, in all of our five clusters. More, of course, have been created in IT. There are more IT companies, in fact, these IT companies often consist of only two or three people.

- I think so our listeners would be interested in the following question: these companies worked with you, and then they all went away, went somewhere like, I don’t know, Kryzhopol, and they did something there. Do you have instances like this? Do you somehow keep track of them all?

- You know, we have to see that each area has its own period of implementation. In biomedical technologies, the process is very long. The registration process itself, drug testing, it takes years and years, however, we have a number of companies that have already passed industry testing for the development of anti-flu vaccines, there are some very interesting developments in the fight against cancer. I do not want to go into details, they have prepared some information for me, but I'm afraid to confuse the terms. But recently in St. Petersburg the European Forum on Biochemistry was held, and we presented our design with 11 Nobel laureates in attendance. You know, they were surprised by the quality and depth of the study.

- Again, recalling the history of the reform of Russian Academy of Sciences, one of the contentious issues, are you for the communists or the Bolsheviks? I mean, what kind of science should there be? Should it be academic, fundamental, and only bear fruit somewhere far down the road? Or should it be applied and produce immediate results?

- You know, they, the scientists, have to be smarter than me, which is not difficult, and younger than me, preferably.

- Yes, all right, Don’t be coquettish.

- No, really, they should be younger, because about this this too there is already a heated discussion, because all of our academics are people of more than a ripe old age.

- How do you at the Foundation understand your work? Are you comfortable with the fact that your work might not bring tangible results in a year, two years, maybe not even in five years?

- You know, we have a development that is already in force. In the IT sector there is a hybrid locomotive that is now being ordered by the Russian Railways.

- So you don’t chase after it, telling all those guys to hurry, hurry?

- I’ll tell you that we won’t have a Zuckerberg this year, nor next year. But we're not talking about science. That's a key mistake when we try to push or oppose those at the science city. We are about the commercial component, we are about taking what they invented and helping them sell it, to become rich as an organization, as a person, as a sector. This is our function.

- Lining your pockets on the fruits of another's intellectual labor.

- We do not have the right to enter with capital or participate in their activities.

- And why do you start to laugh every time I ask these questions?

- I want to sometimes contribute capital, but we are not allowed.

- Let us conclude this topic with our Zuckerberg who isn’t coming anytime soon. This, of course, is great, Facebook is a very handy thing, Google also has a wonderful story. But here there are things that I think people want more. An anti-cancer drug, for example. Does it make sense to somehow expect anything specific? Or is it not worth making such predictions?

- You know, Dmitry Medvedev said in May 2011 at a meeting of the Commission on Innovation dedicated to Skolkovo that if Skolkovo produces one anti-cancer drug or vaccine, then this one is enough ...

- In principle, yes. I think many will agree.

- The chances that it will be invented are probably small, the whole world is engaged in this, all the best minds are focused on solving this problem. But you know, a slight chance is not zero. We have a number of companies working in this field, and in the process, for sure they will tackle many solvable problems that improve the condition of the people, some kind of rehabilitation problems. This is a theme that is the basis of the work of many of the innovative companies we have.

- Do you prod them in this direction in any way? Hey guys, work on this problem? Or you don’t put pressure on them here either, they choose everything?

- We don’t put pressure on them, because it's hard to put pressure on a person who has never worked on a vaccine against cancer.

- No, those who, for example, are working in biomedicine. They come with their own applications, and you don’t tell them: guys, it would be nice if you worked on this problem? They would say yes, why not, we could do it.

- In their free time.

- Yes, in their free time.

- No, it's too simplistic scenario. But the fact is that companies that have looked into this question are quite obviously interested in us, that's for sure. Because we facilitate patenting issues, give large grants. In all we have given grants in the amount of 9 billion rubles. We assist with the registration of drugs, help with the delivery of samples abroad, from abroad, with the purchase of equipment that they couldn’t get otherwise.

- Ok let's move on. The Investigative Committee. Do you have any comment?

- I somehow just got bored.

- Wait, it has just become interesting and fun.

- Isn’t there going to be some kind of break now?

- No, we planned for an hour for you. Some say that in all this there is a political undercurrent, that this is a struggle in the higher echelons of power, these attacks, using the popular terminology, on Dmitri Medvedev.

- The fact that for many our relationship with the Investigative Committee is the cause of such a reaction perhaps is not surprising. People look all over for political undercurrents, a struggle with the opposition, and business disputes. You know, the Audit Chamber has come to visit us, and that's fine. We get a large amount of money from the budget, sooner or later the Chamber had to look at how this money is spent. The Chamber looked, found a number of shortcomings, with some of which we did not agree, and they agreed with us that what we do not agree with them. This resulted in a document that was approved by the board of the Audit Chamber. Then we developed with the Chamber a corrective action plan that I think consisted of 85 items. The corrective action plan was finally confirmed at the beginning of this year, and now at the end of July and August, all the corrective actions have been completed. They were technical issues, the presence or absence of specific regulations. You have to understand, we have been creating this Foundation very quickly at a time when there was no such existing practice, a law would be adopted, and the practical application of the law had not been established. Perhaps we made mistakes, we definitely made mistakes, and the Chamber pointed these out. Some of the Chamber’s materials, if I understand correctly, were referred to the Investigative Committee. And the Investigative Committee is conducting checks on these issues.

- The reports of the Audit Chamber are all "classified."

- That's because it is secret, I have not seen them.

- How can this be?

- I don’t know why.

- But if you have had such great interaction, you agreed, they did not agree, and vice versa, then why was this document not made public?

- This question shouldn’t be addressed to me.

- We should ask the Chamber?

- Yes, that's right, the Audit Chamber. We did not classify it. Moreover, we do not have a First Department ...

- Is this really true?

- Yes, so it’s difficult for us.

- How is it you do not have a First Department? You have such cash flow, you have contacts with foreign colleagues ...

- Agents.

- Agents, of course. Are you saying that you have no foreign agents? That doesn’t happen, surely someone has gotten through. Who is in charge of this?

- We do not have a First Department, we have a number of departments that carry out internal auditing, cost control measures, and that's fine. The money is from the budget, there is a lot of it, so there is a multi-layered, multi-level system of monitoring and protecting the expenditure of funds. It is certainly justified. But there is no First Department.

- And would you want one?

- No, not at all. Moreover, I am so glad that there is no First Department.

- However, you didn’t answer my question about the political component. The resignation of Vladislav Surkov - this is definitely a political event. Was it tied to his work at Skolkovo? This is another question.

- You have anticipated my answer.

- Almost everyone thinks this.

- The fact is that Surkov was intensively engaged in Skolkovo. And such an obvious public element of his working day probably caused people to think there was some connection because of this.

- There was just swordplay between the Investigative Committee, between Mr. Markin and Vladislav Surkov. Then there was a resignation. Everyone began to respect Markin even more.

- First, I do not want to be a third party in this swordplay. Secondly, I do not see a direct correlation, perhaps because of my political blindness, myopia, I would say. Third, we have a prominent, large, very publicly discussed project. It seems apparent, therefore, that part of the political agenda has touched us. In the sense that people automatically apply any events taking place in political life to us.

- You know, maybe if it was only one episode, but then there was this story of deputy Ponomarev. It has been said that Surkov personally gave the order to pay this crazy money to Ponomarev for his lectures. And so on.

- We are done with Surkov and are going to Ponomarev now?

- Why? No. This is the same again, as it was Surkov that ordered it. They wrote that Mr. Beltyukov signed this agreement with deputy Ponomarev by direct order from Vladislav Surkov.

- I can’t honestly tell you if these details were on the direct orders of Surkov, I don’t know. I know that Beltyukov signed the contract. And in regards to this contract we sued Ponomarev.

- He didn’t fulfill the terms of the contract?

- He believes that he did.

- How?

- We were in agreement, the contract was formally paid. Now, after the Investigative Committee gave us information that there is reason to believe that the contract was executed poorly, not in full, we initiated a suit, I think, in the Gagarin district court. This claim is under consideration. I think they have already postponed the case twice. And now they have come to consider the matter.

- And what prospects do you see in this case? Are you ready to go to the magistrates' court with Ilya Ponomarev?

- The magistrates' court was, I think, immediately ruled out as an option, we went to court in the end. And in this case there are three outcomes: the court recognizes that we are right, the claim will pass; the court could rule in favor of Ponomarev ...

- And the third, which I ...

- Well, there is no third ...

- Either I take her to get married, or she’ll take me to the prosecutor, we have known this since childhood. It so strange. And from where, tell me, please, does this $750 thousand come? Not that I would reach into someone else's pocket ... But it’s kind of strange to us, and experts say that it's like the fee of the ex-vice-president of the United States, for example, or the president of the United States ...

- For what? The fee for that?

- For lectures. Many were shocked, of course, at that figure.

- You know, first, the money wasn’t just for lectures, a good half was for research and development, for the studies that were conducted by Mr. Ponomarev, which are also the subject of the court case. So it's not really that scary. Let's wait for the results of the hearing.

- Ok, let's wait for the results, and I’ll still ask a few more questions on issues that also come up. They relate to wages. Allegedly the Foundation president's salary was 2 million rubles a month, and then suddenly recently reduced almost to 15 thousand rubles a month. Is that true? Or is this also some kind of speculation?

- The Foundation Board, which is authorized to set salaries for employees of the fund, sets the salary for the position of President of the Foundation.

- So?

- 2 million rubles. This was the salary for Mr. Vekselberg. He refused to take this, and he did not receive it. His wages were set to the minimum possible – 15 thousand rubles – so that his work documents could be on file at the Foundation. And he transferred the entirety of this salary to Skolktech.

- And can you name your salary?

- Do you mean in dollars, euro, or rubles?

- In rubles, we use rubles now.

- I've got the urge to give my salary, it's big. It is at the level of top managers of large corporations. I worked for Coca-Cola for many years, I worked at TNK, it is at the level of top managers.

- Is it an assessment of managerial skills? Or what do you think? For example, I get some kind of salary, I'll tell you a secret, it too is not a small sum for radio, true, but I know what it’s for.

- First, I’m a drop-dead awesome professional.

- So, it's good.

- Secondly, I am in the market. And top executives of large corporations receive three times more than I do. A top-manager of small corporations, two times smaller than I am.

- Well my dear friends, to compare. I am now being told by my colleagues about the car in which you arrived today. Security is very worried, because you barely got into our gate because of its width. Can you drive a new car every day?

- Of course not. I have the car in which I came.

- What kind of car is it?

- Maserati, yes. I bought it before ...

- Why do you need a Maserati in Moscow, tell me?

- This is my attempt to be younger. It's also a good car, it really is.

- Buy a motorcycle.

- No, I'm afraid. I also have an old London taxi. Now, I can change: go in the Maserati or an old London taxi.

- The most interesting is which of these cars will get more attention.

- One hundred percent the old London taxi.

- Yes, Maserati, all right. Today I was in the parking lot next to a Lamborghini. You just can’t drive those cars.

- Maseratis are actually cheaper ...

- I'm not talking about the price, I said you can’t drive them. So I now drive a Chevrolet Camaro. By the way, I strongly recommend it.

- I saw it, it’s worth it. Let’s trade.

- I can’t, it’s not mine, I’m testing it. The fact is I'm just trying to lull the vigilance of Alexander Chernov. So you ride around Moscow in a Maserati, Mr. Chernov?

- In the summer.

- I understand, not in the winter.

- Listen, the roads in Moscow are beautiful. I can tell you there are no problems.

- You hear me talking about traffic jams. Will you be stuck in one on the Garden Ring?

- Do you think it would be better to sit in traffic in a Volga than in a Maserati?

- I don’t see the reason, you know. That's it, you’ll sit there no matter what you’re in. And then, when the road opens, cameras watch you. When I was driving my last test car, a Subaru, the police stopped me on the road. Just look at the car. He says, "You think you can stomp on the pedal, because there are no cameras here?" I said, "Okay." I pushed down the pedal. But further on, I can’t, because of the cameras. What's the point in these cars? And in the winter you don’t drive them as a rule.

- You pick cars not to race, you don’t get them just for this. This car is powerful, but many others are not powerful. It is comfortable, but there are many that are more comfortable. But the overall total aesthetic pleasure that I receive from the car allowed me to make the controversial decision to defend it on the air on your radio show.

- Yes, please, for God's sake, how much you want to defend yourself. Why did you make it up, "this is my attempt to be young"? What for?

- Good, it was an unsuccessful attempt.

- Tell me please, is it true that the foundation illegally transferred more than 3 billion rubles to the account of Metcombank?

- It’s not true. The foundation transferred the money legally. The fact is that according to our current institutional traditions, a significant portion of the money came to our account January 31, 2011. The account that was at Metcombank. The money came on the 31st. Not readied, not finished. It is impossible to transfer such a huge sum so quickly. So the money was carefully placed in the bank where we had an account, on commercial terms, and everybody had this information, including the Ministry of Finance, with whom we had the contract in question.

- You want to say that you put it in this bank because it was easier? After all, the claim, as I understand it, was that the bank is affiliated with Vekselberg.

- You know, it's a stable, big commercial bank. It gave good conditions. I will tell you something surprising. Not every bank will agree to accept 3,500,000,000 rubles on December 31st, without imposing very serious limitations on withdrawing the funds. The bank has provided favorable conditions for a number of reasons. These accounts have raised 80 million rubles, which officially went towards authorized purposes of the Foundation.

- At the beginning of the program you mentioned in passing that there are no kickbacks and technologically cannot happen. However, on the Internet, the same blogs are constantly telling some scary stories that if you want a grant, give a kickback. There are plenty of examples and even evidence given.

- I have not seen the evidence. There are allegations published, some messages about this from time to time, not very often, but I have come across them. I do all that I can, I say, guys, send me this evidence. Here is my address, please send this information. But I don’t see everything. We're trying to catch everything that is published about us, that's fine. It is the practice of any specialist in communications. Calls with any blogger who writes about this are always like, "I was told by a friend ...".

- In general, any conversation begins like this. I did not see your car, but the guys told me about it in my ear. Then I asked questions. This is normal.

- The issue is that when you don’t receive a grant, it ultimately causes insecurities for the company that was refused the grant. They prepared for it, they were counting on it, they ...

- It’s just like not receiving a visa.

- Can you feel offended in this situation? It’s possible. A lot of companies make a second attempt to obtain a grant. Some people believe that there are other means to get the money. Perhaps this person shouldn’t be judged - the practice of kickbacks exists in the country.

- But you yourself say that the Chamber has found some violations. In what area?

- No in a single one associated with kickbacks.

- Then what? It is said that nearly 200 people have been deprived of monetary incentives.

- This was not a conclusion of the Audit Chamber. We did not fulfill part of KPI, so the fund's management decided not to pay the bonuses. Not an incentive, but a bonus that is provided for by contract. I did not receive a bonus.

- To punish you?

- They didn’t encourage me. A bonus is a form of encouragement.

- Still, there were violations found by the Audit Chamber. In what area were the violations you agreed with?

- In very different areas, because they examined virtually all the activities of the Foundation. For example, the absence of a provision for the work of a department, for example, an official schedule, for example, these regulations.

- Listen, how do you work? You don’t have a First Department, you do not have rules ...

- We either don’t have them or they have not been brought into compliance with the latest decision of the Foundation’s board.

- It's all very suspicious.

- They very meticulously examined literally everything, it was an x-ray machine that helped us in an accelerated manner, many things were put in order.

- Like the State of Israel and the United Kingdom, you live without a constitution, and you live well.

- I do not want to be associated with either Israel or the United States.

- No, I'm talking about the UK, America has a constitution.

- We have a charter, it is our constitution.

- And is Skolkovo too weak to make a super tablet for Miller, about which the news reported today?

- For 120 million?

- I do not know, maybe you’ll do it cheaper.

- I’m 99% sure that a number of our companies will apply for this tender, no doubt.

- Basically, they have some developments ready?

- That’s not about the tablet itself.

- It’s clear, yes.

- And here, we know, there is an amazing thing. 25% of patents registered in the country in the field of IT are patents from Skolkovo. This is our residents. I would say that the cumulative wisdom of the IT people is very high. So exactly whether our startups will apply, I do not know, nor whether they will win or not, but they will try to win the tender, if there is one.

- It is said that Gazprom will announce the tender. 120 million - is this normal?

- It's $4 million

- You translate well, but not quite exact. The ruble isn’t exactly 30 rubles. Really can it cost so much, such a device?

- I would not allow myself this kind of tablet ever. That’s not a tablet, it is in fact like some kind of nuclear suitcase.

- That’s on the scale of Gazprom, of course.

- Of course, it costs money, but how much? I'm not an expert here.

- Was it really necessary, again, going back to the beginning of our conversation, to establish a Foundation from scratch? Many critics of the project say that there are a huge amount of science cities. We all know them, there is Akademgorodok in Novosibirsk, and Dubna, and so on. Wouldn’t it be more logical to focus efforts there? Even if the same message of action which you are giving now, we help people, we are not for science, we are helping people to work.

- You know, a lot of companies that are included in our thousand, they are from the science cities - from Novosibirsk, Tomsk, from Chernogolovka, from Dubna. They are in our clusters in sectors where they are unparalleled experts and professionals. Institutions that are our residents have created special start-ups in order to get a chance to work. Once again, we are not competitors of science cities. Moreover, we are now building relationships with them and trying to provide them with access to opportunities for those investors who have come to us, to those venture capitalists who have brought 60 billion rubles to those key partners, including Boeing, Siemens, Intel, Microsoft, who are looking for interesting developments and allow them access to world markets through their own resources. We are not able to tow the entire Russian economy, but we are able to provide the tools and skills, the knowledge of how to do it, how to become competitive in the market. And science cities are something else altogether.

- Do you have cases when it is necessary to refuse to cooperate with a company? You mentioned Cisco and Cognitive Technologies, the story of when, as I understand it, you declined to cooperate, but the work had to be paid by contract. Do you often have disagreements with your partners to such an extent?

- Cognitive Technologies is not our partner. Cisco is our partner.

- Doesn’t the Foundation work with them there?

- Not really. They were brought in as a consultant company, Cognitive Technology. The work that was done was terrible, bad. If we had paid for it, it would have turned out badly. Unfortunately, the contract was drawn up so that we had to pay. But we're suing on this issue.

- You are already in litigation with so many ...

- Yes.

- But this is an exception?

- No. Of course, we will have more such questions. But we ordered a job for which it was impossible to pay, and we decided not to pay for it. We were obliged by the court.

- And you calmly, personally acknowledge mistakes?

- It is extremely rare.

- Why? Because few of them things?

- No, I do...

- You said that you are a drop-dead awesome professional.

- Yes, so each of my mistakes is a mistake. It is a serious, large-scale work of art. I make many mistakes. You know, the informational situation around the Foundation is to some extent the result even of my own mistakes. For two years we lived with such a relaxed and pacified mood toward us. People said, "Oh, Skolkovo, I’ve heard something about this." It was neutral.

- Doesn’t it seem to you that this happened only after Dmitry Medvedev ceased to be president?

- Of course, Dmitry Medvedev devoted more time to us than Vladimir Putin. But Vladimir Putin...

- And by the way, Putin did not hide the fact that this is not his interest.

- You know, he's very aware of what’s happening in our project, I know this first-hand. He has repeatedly and clearly said that the project is necessary and needs to be developed. And the head of his administration, Sergei Ivanov, confirmed this. No, putting blame on Medvedev or Putin for our information problems is the least desirable thing to do.

- Listen, dear colleagues, journalists, just blame everything on Chernov, he just now admitted to it.

- I have to take a significant share of the blame, because this pacifying, condescending attitude towards us after it was reported that we had people abusing power, that we have a criminal case against Mr. Lugovtsev, you know what surprising effect this has had?

- No.

- Many people say, "Wow, they are normal, they steal, thank God." This way we have gotten sympathy from them.

- They thought he was a Jew, and he turned out to be a drinker, as they said at one time. Tell me briefly, maybe you will be able to articulate it in one sentence: What is the point of the Skolkovo Foundation project?

- We need to insure our competitiveness as a country. With such an incredible brand of intellectual power, intellectual property and developments, we somehow have to use the products of other economies, which are often, not always, but often developed based on the research of our scientists.

- I understand that. And with Skolkovo we won’t solve everything alone, but at least push Russia towards the development of innovative models?

- One Skolkovo - no. Ten or 15 Skolkovos, if we are successful - we have not yet taken form as a final product to be assessed - if we reach those indicators that we expect, then, of course, yes.

 

Source: kommersant.ru